Thursday, October 05, 2006

Churches and McMansions

Jay Voorhees at Only Wonder writes (of his recent trip to Church of the Resurrection in Kansas City): "I did get to make the pilgrimage to Church of the Resurrection (or as I like to call it, the MethoMall) to touch base on the schedule and figure out how far it was from the hotel. It would be interesting to do a doctoral thesis on which came first, the church or the high rent community that surrounds it. Don’t get me wrong, for I am not saying that COR is doing anything wrong — in fact they are doing a bunch of things right. But it does confirm my thesis that United Methodist church plants are much more likely to succeed if they are planted in booming bedroom communities filled with McMansions. What we’ve been unable to figure out is how to succeed at being missional in more working or lower income communities, and especially communities of transition."

I thought Jay raised an interesting concern. Do any of you know of growing ministries/missional communities that are thriving in working/lower income communities? I, like Jay, agree that COR is doing many cool things - this isn't an either/or question. But he's raising an intriguing question. My location in Central NY is an interesting blend of bedroom communities and rural/farming/worker communities all very close together and sharing worship spaces together.

posted by Elizabeth at 1:29 PM  

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11 Comments:

Brett said...

I'm not a fan of the big mega churches. They post huge numbers and continue to grow, but sometimes at the expense of preaching the full gospel. Not all, but many preach a feel good gospel that doesn't mention sin lest people be offended.
I would rather be a part of a small congregation that preaches the full gospel with love and compassion that may not be growing in numbers, than a congregation that preaches a half gospel with love and compassion that is growing.

2:51 PM  
gmw said...

Hi, Beth,

Our conference (Texas Annual Conference: Houston and East Texas area) has, like most, been far more "successful" when we've planted congregations in affluent growing edge suburbs--not that there's anything wrong with that.

But, to your point, we are continually humbled by the boom of two congregations that have boomed in urban areas. Windor Village UMC in Houston has been quite strong for a while. It's rise has been under the leadership of Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, holder of an MDiv and an Ivy League MBA. Heck of a preacher and really sharp, he took a 25 member church inside the beltway of Houston and now it is the largest UMC in the US at I think around 14 or 15,000 members. They've also converted a strip center into a multi-faceted community outreach center. The second church is St. John's UMC in downtown Houston, whose church building sits right next to its community outreach center under the freeway. It is led by Rudy and Juanita Rasmus, incredibly gifted local pastors who have built it to I think around 8000 or 9000 members, gobs of which joined on profession of faith and have come literally off the streets to know Christ there.

Quite obviously, both have gone mega. But it's not because they planted in a room to grow area. They're a great witness.

12:55 AM  
Elizabeth said...

gmw - Thanks for the examples! I will have to check out those ministries.

1:08 AM  
Clif Guy said...

Brett's sentiment is understandable, but he presents a false choice. There is no reason that a church has to either "preach the full gospel with love and compassion" OR be "growing in numbers." In fact, if a church is passionately effective at preaching the full gospel, growth can follow in a natural and healthy way.

I'm not saying that preaching the full gospel automatically creates growth. I'm simply saying that preaching the full gospel CAN lead to healthy growth. And in fact, that is exactly what is happening at Church of the Resurrection.

1:39 AM  
Keith Taylor said...

Brett,

I respectfully disagree. I think Clif is right. You can have a mega church and have a church that preaches the full gospel.

I personally don't care for large churches, but that is really my personal preference.

However, one needs to remember that many of the churches in the Epistles of St. Paul, were not little house churches. We often think that, but several had attendance that would rival many of our 21st century mega churches and I don't think we look down on them. What I'm trying to say is that having a large or Mega church is NOT un-scriptural, what is unscriptural is not preaching the full gospel of Christ.

3:08 PM  
Dana said...

So, where/how did the first-century mega-churches meet? Amphitheaters? Out in the hills? Did they split up into house groups?

7:39 PM  
Amy said...

This is not a UM example, but I have to give kudos to the Dream Center in L.A. They do amazing ministry in a POOR section of town.
I don't agree with their conservative/pentecostal theology as a progressive UM... but when I visited there, I sure admire their Wesleyan spirit of doing whatever it takes to meet the needs of the poor and believing that faith in Christ matters in their lives.. all at the same time.

10:10 PM  
Joel Thomas said...

In Tulsa, churches such as Christ UMC, attendance over 1200, and Will Rogers, attendance over 400, have thrived in changing neighborhoods that have many working class. And not just by getting people to drive back to their old neighborhood, though some do.

In Minnesota, Park Avenue United Methodist has thrived in an inner-urban neighborhood. I understood it took a risk by deciding intentionally to become biracial, driving off scores of regualars but in the end bringing in even more from the neighborhood.

There may be a few others that don't come to mind.

I do believe this is a nation-wide problem for the UMC. Many people of those lower incomes are coming to our churches for services but then heading to Pentecostal, non-denominational or Baptist churches to worship.

Maybe we would do better with new church starts in such areas that involve initially store-front operations. I may be writing out of ignorance, but I'm wondering if the large amounts of money put into church starts doesn't lead the Conferences to pick the higher income neighborhoods. Anyone seen a demographics study on exactly where new church plants are located?

Several in Oklahoma suggested placing the new Conference headquarters in a working class or low income neighborhood to make a statement of who we are, but the majority were concerned about safety issues for the Conference staff having to drive into a higher-crime area.

6:20 PM  
Joel Thomas said...

Jay,

You were at COR? I would have like to have met you. I did get to have lunch with Methoblogger Jason Woolever and his wife, which was very enjoyable.

6:26 PM  
gmw said...

Beth,

Here are the websites:

St. John's: http://www.stjohnsdowntown.org/

Windsor Village: http://www.kingdombuilder.com

11:55 PM  
Dr. Tony said...

Where I live, there are several old (and we are talking really old - prior to the Revolution) Methodist Churches. There are located in areas of New York that are growing in population but are still consider rural in nature. But the churches are dying and it appears that the conference is not willing to help. At least six of the churches do not have a pastor assigned and there is no liklihood that they will get anyone.

But the conference is more than willing to put money into new churches in the more urban areas.

It seems to me that we are focusing on models of growth that are more business oriented than models of growth that are gospel oriented.

8:19 AM  

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